howard+carolyn thoughts
coming atcha again from my NEW keyboard case that is actually the right model this time!!!!
this morning i woke up and for whatever reason my brain decided to focus on howard and carolyn. it's actually because i was thinking lately about howard's journey to self-discovery as i was rewriting his bio on my website a little bit.
my friend was saying how it's sad to think he ever tried to shove himself into that normal, straight person box. it's interesting because i don't think it's ever been about being straight, gay etc.; he grew up around like stan and co, none of whom were straight, and his mum was cool about everything and anything. i really think it comes more from a place of expectations, obligations. howard dated carolyn because he thought he ought to. he didn't want to hurt her so he didn't break up with her as early as he should've.
i keep having a tiny bit of dialogue go through my head but i'm not sure if it's canon or not. it would require howard and carolyn to have an in-person like, argument after their breakup. well, i guess it doesn't have to be a heated argument. it could be a cathartic chat.
the line is like... carolyn is saying "you know i felt really bad about my body after that?" like she felt unattractive, ya know. like she says something like "the second i take my clothes off you want to break up with me", type of vibe. not that exactly because, they were intimate more than once, so it's not like. you know. but anyway howard responds something like "okay. so did i." but he means it in another way -- the loss of autonomy, feeling gross being stuck inside of his own body.
maybe he doesn't say it like that, i dunno. i feel like i need them to talk about it though... maybe it's a long while after the fact. probably it is. maybe it's an elephant in the room for a while. they're still friends and talk every now and then, but not about the relationship. maybe, years later, they finally talk about it. it comes about organically.
i think howard's careful not to apologise though. cuz he wants to, instinctively, for making carolyn feel like that. but he knows it's not his fault, as much as it's not her fault that she made howard uncomfortable. howard didn't even know what his deal was. he couldn't communicate something he didn't know about himself yet.
i feel like he also says something about them just being the wrong orientation for each other. which, i'm not saying allo people and aspec people can't date, but, it was never gonna work for those two at the very least. had he realised sooner he wouldn't have dated her. i want him to kind of talk about like, you only know your own experience of the world. so having nothing to compare it to, you just try and go along with the done thing.
and i think carolyn begins to understand at that point. howard says like, (in a lighthearted way) it's kind of embarrassing, seeing you date someone else who's actually straight. like, what the hell was i doing? thinking about the way that he acted lmao. probably he jokes that he's surprised she even stayed with him cuz he was the least romantic person ever. carolyn just says, well, she liked him! so that didn't really matter to her.
that's something of an eye-opener for him too i think. he thought he was doing everything wrong, but she didn't see it that way. of course it wouldn't have changed anything regardless. but, to know he was enough anyway...
then i think he asks her like -- would you have been okay with it though? never being like, intimate?
she says, being honest, probably not.
i think hearing that makes howard feel weirdly better though. i mean, as this point, he has andy anyway, and they are Locked The Heck In. so it doesn't matter lol. but something about, idk, sometimes it's like... the idea that you kinda did something for the sake of someone else and you needn't have... all because you blamed yourself for something they never even saw as a problem... but she would have wanted more, eventually.
so ya. i think it's a good conversation, and one that can only be had way after everything is in the past.
i think, going back to earlier... carolyn wouldve phrased it more like... "i know i shouldn't have, because it's not your fault we were literally like, the wrong orientation for each other, but i did feel really bad about my body for a while after that." and howard nods. pauses. "so did i."
"did you?"
"i mean..." pause. (side note, howard is such a guy to consider his words carefully.) "probably not in the same way as you. i just felt... wrong. like my body wasn't mine. kind of wanted to just, like, crawl out of my own skin."
"oh. sorry, howard, i didn't know."
"well, i never told you. and it wasn't your fault either."
carolyn pouts at him. "i know, but..."
"it was just something i had to figure out for myself," howard shrugs.
(side note. maybe this kicks off because she's with her current partner/husband (i think they have a young child at this point?) just before meeting howard for coffee or something -- so he briefly sees this guy, sees them interacting, and after the guy leaves howard's jokingly like "wow. i realise how bad of a boyfriend i was now. i'm surprised you didn't realise i wasn't straight. i was like the least romantic person ever."
"well, i liked you, so i didn't care!"
ok i need to write this out so it actually makes linear sense lol